Persuasion gets talked about like it’s pure logic, but most of us know the truth from experience: the harder you push, the harder people push back. Marilyn Jenkins sits down with psychologist and behavioral scientist Dr. JonRobert, founder of Influence 51, to unpack what actually changes minds and why smart communicators focus on psychology before they focus on proof. We dig into psychological reactance, the “anti-coercion” response that shows up everywhere from negotiations to jury deliberations, and why persuasion is often an access problem, not an argument problem.
We also get practical about courtroom communication and jury decision-making. Dr. JonRobert explains why jurors tend to reward the side that builds the most coherent causal story, not just the side with the biggest stack of facts. We break down narrative transportation theory, self-generated persuasion, and a simple two-question technique that helps people talk themselves into the conclusion you want without feeling forced. If you care about trial strategy, witness exams, openings, or closings, you’ll hear how small shifts in message framing can create outsized shifts in verdicts.
Then we look ahead: AI and behavioral science. AI can generate persuasive content quickly, but John argues humans still have the edge in social dynamics like reading the room, adjusting mid-argument, and using humility instead of fake certainty. We wrap with a powerful reminder for lawyers, leaders, and legal marketers: less arguing, more curiosity, plus the right balance of competence and warmth to earn real trust.
Reach Dr. JonRobert here:
https://www.influence51.com
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonrobert-tartaglione-ph-d-21b26770/
Season 4 Episode 181
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Leadership In Law Podcast with host, Marilyn Jenkins
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